After the my personal summary of the children away from Llywelyn Fawr and you will Joanna and the answers they obtained, I searched again through the genealogical users on the subject of Gwladus Ddu. Even though it is real, while the numerous genealogists point out, one to regarding the absence of specific proof for some reason, new name of your mommy regarding Gwladus Ddu need to are still ‘unknown’, I discovered no reason to alter my personal achievement one to their particular mother is actually Joanna and never Tangwystyl.
She left no issue from the Alexander II
You to definitely after that origin about the people is the pursuing the conceptual regarding the ‘Leaders and Queens out-of Britain’ a well-respected publication, written by Oxford University Force, web page 106:
‘Llywelyn ab Iorwerth, b.1173, young man out of Iorwerth Drwyndwn (‘Flatnose’) and Marared, daughter regarding Madog ap Maredudd; acc. eastern Gwynedd 1195; hitched Joan, illegitimate daughter regarding Queen John, 1205; issue: Gruffudd (illegitimate), Dafydd, Gwenllian, Helen, Gwladus, Margaret, Susanna; passed away eleven April 1240; buried: Aberconwy.’
Very first, i’d like to spend tribute so you can Sharon. Their own look getting ‘HBD’, ‘Drops the fresh new Shadow’ and you will ‘This new Reckoning’, achieved before the introduction of the net, was really a fantastic. Virtually what you she’s got written in one to trilogy stands romantic examination today.
To prove it is not just myself one believes thus, allow me to quote you to definitely genealogist who is good fan of Sharon: “I’m extremely keen on Sharon Kay Penman’s books. As they aren’t purely biographical, I feel more comfortable counting on their particular strive to ‘fill in the fresh new blanks’ (given the level of search she needless to say set in her courses), than in in fact mentioning some genealogical supplies that we came across within my research (I’m sure we encounter provide in that way). In order to whoever has not yet understand their unique works, I suggest they extremely highly, especially if you would like to get an end up being for just what life was instance 800 in years past.”
Pursuing the questions presented because of the Beth, Suzanne and you may Exotic particularly, I attempt comparing the identity away from Joanna’s mommy (known hereafter, for simple reference given that ‘Clemence’ maybe not ‘Clementia’) compliment of an event towards the to-be-king John. Once running upwards of numerous blind alleys, mainly because of seeking reconcile the latest chronology of a single towards the most other, I’ve paid about what pursue. I really don’t point out that what i wrote was definitive in any shape or means, in addition to truth is that individuals are likely to never be yes from their own title.
(a) The illegitimate Joanna, daughter out-of “Clemence,” is actually truly born of wedlock –– as well as turned-out because of the Honorius III’s decree saying their particular legitimate when you look at the April 1226, regardless if rather than prejudice towards the queen otherwise arena of The united kingdomt (i.e., giving their own no-claim to that particular throne). This new decree, that has been transcribed on brand new, unpublished Sign in from Honorius III (Reg. Vat. 13, fol. 122 ), says inter alia one “Johannes Rex anglie solutus te genuerit de- soluta,” and that, I am informed, translates as “Queen John out-of England, whenever solitary , fathered you because of the a single lady.”
This task became a great deal more state-of-the-art than just I would personally possess think you’ll be able to!
This means Joanna can have already been born no after than just 1189 whenever John partnered Isabella from Gloucester. Their particular mother, “Clemence” was probably French otherwise Norman, due to the fact facts from the patent rolls of John’s leadership means that Joan is actually lead out of Normandy to England for the December 1203, to prepare getting matrimony so you’re able to Llywelyn ab Iorwerth (get a hold of less than). Joanna died from inside the Feb 1237.
(b) John’s legitimate daughter Joan, because of the Isabella away from Angouleme (partnered to John in the 1200 during the many years twelve!), came to be on Gloucester toward twenty-two July 1210 mГёte Pakistansk kvinner (see the Tewkesbury Annals on Moves Show, vol. 36.we, p. 59; the fresh new Worcester Annals, ibid., vol. 36.iv, p. 399; and the Rotuli Litterarum Patencium to own John’s Leadership, pp. 124, 143). This is basically the Joan exactly who next hitched Alexander II out of Scotland and you can she passed away within the 1238, specific months immediately following Joanna (this may account for a number of the confusion obvious between your one or two women).
